On 30 Jan 2025 at 09:45a, deon pondered and said...

Re: Pondering Echomail Changes
By: Avon to All on Tue Jan 28 2025 02:05 pm

Howdy,

Hey

I am considering the following
Retiring

FSX_ADS
FSX_STA
FSX_FIL

Personally I dont read any of these. While the occassional BBS ad is
good to remind/learn about another BBS (or be in awe of great ad) - for those ads that are auto bot posting daily/weekly (and on every other
net), has put me off those areas.

Yes thanks, that's the emerging theme coming out of the received feedback so far... and the value of posting most stats etc. to the website vs echomail. I do like the idea of a weekly echomail post covering network stats... that's what we used to do (from memory) and I remember posting to the echos their stats also... don't think it return to that bit but look to keep some weekly summary into one echo that could accept such stuff (on paper) :)

Stats is useful, but again daily stats I dont look at. Its nice to see every now and again, but daily I dont need to follow it that closely.

File area announcements I havent looked at for a long time. When its
every bbs posting that they've received the same nodelist/infopack or
nasa image, etc its not really that useful to me (especially since I receive those too).

Yep agreed

That's said, if its not interesting, its easy to unsub from these areas, or not have them in your default reader list :)

True also.

Kerr Avon [Blake's 7] 'I'm not expendable, I'm not stupid and I'm not going' avon[at]bbs.nz | bbs.nz | fsxnet.nz

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Linux/64)
* Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)

On 30 Jan 2025 at 09:52a, deon pondered and said...

Re: Pondering Echomail Changes
By: Avon to All on Tue Jan 28 2025 02:05 pm

Retiring

FSX_ENG - the echo is largely inactive and I think posts covering Enigm could be covered in FSX_BBS

FSX_MAG - the echo does has some activity but again, perhaps best to mo chatter to FSX_BBS?
Pondering

Its a shame, the BBS focused areas are great to get updates on those specific BBS tools, but if there arent any updates :(

That's my thoughts also, I was happy to spin up the echos when there was real level of activity about the software packages...and it made sense to have a dedicated space to focus that content in to one discoverable echo.

The Mystic echo was the second echo created after FSX_GEN for that very reason and held off for a long time creating other echos taking a very conservative approach to echo creation.

The bugger is once you create an echo and then say opt to shutter it, even if you unsub all node and post updates to say this echo is no more, you will still BBSes on auto pilot (sysop is MIA) sometimes posting stuff to a now defunct echo etc.. HUBs that can reject those posts are a good thing IMHO else we end up back around the roundabout again with more content going out on what should be a defunct/retired echo.

So the ponderings I've been sharing about re purposing current echomail areas for a wider topic brief vs creating a new echo are partially based on that concern.

2) Keep crypto echo or not? I like the idea of an echo for encoded post

Yeah, I'd like to do more with areas that add a security element to them. Thinking about it, it doesnt need to be a public area (echomail) - it could be done via netmail...

I also like the topic/subject and am reluctant to loose the echo on that basis also, even if at the moment it's not that active... ZC privilege I guess :)

3) Keep HAM echo, albeit that's it fairly quiet.

Maybe HAM morphs into more "radio" related BBS activities? I'd love to
do more with LORA for example - I just cant find the time to focus on it ... I've even found out that my city has a free LORA network, so
wondering how I can tap into that (but I might be just out of range of it)...

I really like this idea and think we'll do this, it's an easy win. Will look for others to chime in on this one.

Kerr Avon [Blake's 7] 'I'm not expendable, I'm not stupid and I'm not going' avon[at]bbs.nz | bbs.nz | fsxnet.nz

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Linux/64)
* Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)

On 29 Jan 2025 at 06:13p, Warpslide pondered and said...

On 30 Jan 2025, deon said the following...

3) Keep HAM echo, albeit that's it fairly quiet.

Maybe HAM morphs into more "radio" related BBS activities? I'd love t do more with LORA for example - I just cant find the time to focus on ... I've even found out that my city has a free LORA network, so wondering how I can tap into that (but I might be just out of range o it)...

+1 for a more general "radio" echo (or keep the tag FSX_HAM and just change the description/title to read something like "HAM & Radio Chat").

I have a few LoRa toys here, but I am out of range of most everything. For Meshtastic I have a Heltec V3 upstairs with a bigger antenna (still inside) and then a Lilygo T-Deck I keep downstairs.

Noted, and thanks yes I like this idea also, we'll work get this one changed in the coming week or so... just want to flesh out other echos comings and goings also first.

Jay

Thanks Jay!

Kerr Avon [Blake's 7] 'I'm not expendable, I'm not stupid and I'm not going' avon[at]bbs.nz | bbs.nz | fsxnet.nz

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Linux/64)
* Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)

On 30 Jan 2025 at 06:10a, slacker pondered and said...

I agree with a lot of what others have said.

I know for me,
FSX_ADS, FSX_BOT, FSX_FIL
are more or less never visited. I suppose I could unsub from them at the hub...

cool thanks for feedback and helpful to know.

Regarding FSX_ADS, I wish all bot posts were in FSX_BOT and not flooding FSX_ADS. I actually found a really cool BBS randomly on ADS by chance (Westwood BBS) but other than that, everything there just gets drowned
out by bots and it basically makes the area unusable.

I'm confused by this as it looks to me most posts in FSX_ADS are BBS ads and in the FSX_BOT echo we still have BBS posting their BBS ads there (as it was originally set up to accommodate before FSX_ADS came along) so it's in FSX_BOT where at present you see this mix of weather reports along side a BBS ad etc.. not what is currently intended but hard to get some sysops to change their settings it seems..

Kerr Avon [Blake's 7] 'I'm not expendable, I'm not stupid and I'm not going' avon[at]bbs.nz | bbs.nz | fsxnet.nz

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Linux/64)
* Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)

On 31 Jan 2025 at 09:53a, deon pondered and said...

Re: Re: Pondering Echomail Changes
By: slacker to fusion on Thu Jan 30 2025 06:10 am

Howdy,

Regarding FSX_ADS, I wish all bot posts were in FSX_BOT and not floodin FSX_ADS. I actually found a really cool BBS randomly on ADS by chance (Westwood BBS) but other than that, everything there just gets drowned by bots and it basically makes the area unusable.

Just an idea.

Given many folks set and forget postings, one thing I can do (on
clrghouz at least), is reject posts (in a specific area) that have the same content as a recent post (configurable by days).

I've thought about doing that for me (that's basically what SBBS can do)
- but if that is suitable for those on the hub, I could do that too.

Interesting idea, but it sort of falls over if not all HUBs are consistent in what they are doing and ideally I'd like the experience for a node to largely consistent in terms of the way traffic is passed along from HUB to HUB and onto node.. but I also appreciate Clrghouz is a work in progress and it's nice to extend / develop stuff as we go along (which I totally love) :)

Deciding (if something like this was to be implemented)

Then, every "x" days, only unique posts would make it through, and thus making the area a little more valuable (for that first time wow ad, etc).

what is 'unique' and what is not would be interesting to tease out, it could end up as a game of whack a mole if a node wanted to outfox the 'system' by varying posted content slightly each time etc... and then we're down the spammer pathway... eep.

I could also just state something more explicit in housekeeping, or echo descriptions to say frequency of BBS ads bot posts to be kept to monthly (let's say) so that at least there's a clear expectation... [time passes] yep that's what's there now for FSX_ADS but it states 7 days min before posting, so we certainly should/should lift that number upwards to something else regardless perhaps?

Food for thought.

Sure is.

Kerr Avon [Blake's 7] 'I'm not expendable, I'm not stupid and I'm not going' avon[at]bbs.nz | bbs.nz | fsxnet.nz

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Linux/64)
* Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)

BY: Avon (21:1/101)

|11A|09> |10Just not sure, don't think either option is super strong, but past|07
|11A|09> |10activity has been shuttering old echos and creating new ones. But it|07
|11A|09> |10would be easier to just up date the title and description of a current|07
|11A|09> |10echo.|07
Lets try this option and see if it does any difference in the next two months.


--- WWIV 5.9.03748[Windows]
* Origin: inland utopia * california * iutopia.duckdns.org:2023 (21:4/108)

I'm confused by this as it looks
to me most posts in FSX_ADS are BBS
ads and in the FSX_BOT echo we
still have BBS posting their BBS
ads there (as it was originally set
up to accommodate before FSX_ADS
came along) so it's in FSX_BOT
where at present you see this mix
of weather reports along side a BBS
ad etc.. not what is currently
intended but hard to get some
sysops to change their settings it
seems..

Sorry for the confusion. I didn't mean to say that FSX_ADS didn't include BBS ads, it's just that it seems that the ads also seem like they're posted by bots/scripts. Many of the ads are the same exact message over and over... which I suppose is fine but I guess the frequency seems too much.

Deon posted a message that suggested rejecting these at a hub level if the message body is the same and within x amount of days. I would be on board with a change like that on hub 3 but I can understand the counter argument against it as the hub is now moderating content for you.

I suppose I can spin up some of my own house keeping on my BBS to implement the same or similar idea.

Thanks.


--- NE BBS v0.83 (linux; x64)
* Origin: NE BBS - nebbs.servehttp.com:9223 (21:3/193)

I'm confused by this as it looks to me most posts in FSX_ADS are BBS ads and i
the FSX_BOT echo we still have BBS posting their BBS ads there (as it was originally set up to accommodate before FSX_ADS came along) so it's in FSX_BOT
where at present you see this mix of weather reports along side a BBS ad etc..
not what is currently intended but hard to get some sysops to change their settings it seems..

I started posting my ads in FSX_ADS rather than BOT because I figured no
one would be looking for ads in BOT any more. ;)

As with my ADS, the weather info I post in BOT is posted manually and is therefore at least currated, i.e. if it is something that has already
expired I don't post it. Unless it meets a level of severity, I also don't usually post it.

I used to get tropical warnings for your area of the Pacific and post
those, but these days I only am receiving info regarding the Atlantic, and usually only systems that affect North America. I need to check into
fixing that.


* SLMR 2.1a * Unable to locate Coffee -- Operator Halted!
--- SBBSecho 3.20-Linux
* Origin: capitolcityonline.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/HTTP (21:1/175)

say) so that at least there's a clear expectation... [time passes] yep that's
what's there now for FSX_ADS but it states 7 days min before posting, so we certainly should/should lift that number upwards to something else regardless perhaps?

Is the issue that 7 days is too often, or is the issue that people are
ignoring that suggestion and posting more frequently? If it is the latter, lifting the number upwards won't fix much.

Until recently, I was the moderator of the FIDO ads echo and the issue
there was usually the latter for sure... that and misbehaving bots.


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Hello Avon,

02 Feb 25 10:57, you wrote to me:

I like this idea; also Codefenix's point that he likes the
ANSI BBS adverts might be warranted - keep FSX_ADS,
everything else to BOTS?

Whatever you choose, r0ckstar..

+1 :)

ByEbYe
--
Daniel

Thanks Daniel. Noted this. Do you look at any of the stats bases?
Picking you may have not subbed them and just carry the ads base or ?

i check them 1 or 2 times a month, when i have hunger for stats. :)

ByEbYe
--
Daniel

telnet://bbs.roonsbbs.hu:1212 <<=-

... Uptime: 15d 0h 28m 35s
--- GoldED/2 1.1.4.7+EMX
* Origin: Roon's BBS - Budapest, HUNGARY (21:4/148)

On 04 Feb 2025 at 09:21a, Roon pondered and said...

Thanks Daniel. Noted this. Do you look at any of the stats bases? Picking you may have not subbed them and just carry the ads base or ?

i check them 1 or 2 times a month, when i have hunger for stats. :)

coolio thanks.

Kerr Avon [Blake's 7] 'I'm not expendable, I'm not stupid and I'm not going' avon[at]bbs.nz | bbs.nz | fsxnet.nz

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Linux/64)
* Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)

After reading through this thread I tend to agree with most, that ads should stick around, and merging the stat based groups into one. BBS Ads bases have been a staple with BBS's for a long time as they not only provide some eye-candy, but sometimes offer you a reminder to check out a BBS you have not visited in a while.
Just my thoughts :)

Lloyd (neoshock) sysop @ Vintage Pi BBS
vintagepi.asuscomm.com

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Linux/64)
* Origin: Vintage Pi BBS vintagepi.asuscomm.com (21:1/150)

On 05 Feb 2025 at 02:41p, neoshock pondered and said...

After reading through this thread I tend to agree with most, that ads should stick around, and merging the stat based groups into one. BBS Ads bases have been a staple with BBS's for a long time as they not only provide some eye-candy, but sometimes offer you a reminder to check out
a BBS you have not visited in a while.
Just my thoughts :)

thanks Lloyd, yes I'm leaning this way also.

I think I'll start on my end and move stats posts coming from my systems over to the FSX_BOT echo and run them once a week in echomail and nightly onto fsxnet.nz

Deon - could you keep you nightly stats posts coming to me as you do but also look to shift to a weekly post of NET 3 stats into FSX_BOT?

We should both choose a day to post them to each week into FSX_BOT, perhaps our Sunday morning?

Kerr Avon [Blake's 7] 'I'm not expendable, I'm not stupid and I'm not going' avon[at]bbs.nz | bbs.nz | fsxnet.nz

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Linux/64)
* Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)

I am considering the following

Retiring

FSX_ADS

I just finished my Mystic NewFiles MOD which combines random headers with the latest newfiles of my board :(.

Any BBS advertisements, stats for echomail areas, inter-bbs games, files received could be merged back down into FSX_BOT

If we combine the stats, inter-bbs things, files into one group nobody will look at the Ads.

I find myself sometimes browsing them. But I'd stop when these are merged.

2cents provided

oP!

... The cost of feathers has risen. Now even down is up.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A49 2024/05/29 (Linux/64)
* Origin: TheForze - bbs.theforze.eu:23 (21:3/126)

On 07 Feb 2025 at 08:25a, Avon pondered and said...

I think I'll start on my end and move stats posts coming from my systems over to the FSX_BOT echo and run them once a week in echomail and
nightly onto fsxnet.nz

Deon - could you keep you nightly stats posts coming to me as you do but also look to shift to a weekly post of NET 3 stats into FSX_BOT?

I've made some changes that should start tonight, will let things run next 1-2 days to check all is well before next steps

1) Set stats for 1/10 and 1/100 and 4/100 to post to FSX_BOT weekly on a Sunday (New Zealand time) they were daily to FSX_STA until now

2) Set stats for 1/10 and 1/100 and 4/100 to upload each day to fsxnet.nz as they currently do - so no changes there I hope.

3) Set file announcements for 1/100 to be posted weekly to FSX_BOT they were daily to FSX_FIL up until now.

4) Set weekly nodelist/infopack announcements to be posted weekly to FSX_BOT until now those posts were into FSX_FIL

all of this (if it all works) should reduce/stop the posts from 1/10 and 1/100 and 4/100 to both FSX_STA and FSX_FIL and also change the frequency from daily to weekly.

If all works well in a few days I'll be more confident to remove FSX_STA from the echomail areas... and we'll need to work with node posting to FSX_FIL to start using FSX_BOT again if they want to post file announcements.

I figure with some systems it may be hard to get them to post file announcements say once a day or once a week as I suspect a number of systems are on auto and just send out an announcement as/when files arrive... I'm not going to die in a ditch over this, but figure a daily or even once a week file announcement post is of more value in the signal/noise ratio of BOT posts - agree?

Kerr Avon [Blake's 7] 'I'm not expendable, I'm not stupid and I'm not going' avon[at]bbs.nz | bbs.nz | fsxnet.nz

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Linux/64)
* Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)

On 06 Feb 2025 at 07:50p, opicron pondered and said...

I am considering the following

Retiring

FSX_ADS

I just finished my Mystic NewFiles MOD which combines random headers
with the latest newfiles of my board :(.

You could still post stuff and I'd suggest point the output to FSX_BOT thanks :)

Any BBS advertisements, stats for echomail areas, inter-bbs games, fi received could be merged back down into FSX_BOT

If we combine the stats, inter-bbs things, files into one group nobody will look at the Ads.

At this time I am thinking we'll look to combine stats and file announcements along with other BOT posts all back into FSX_BOT ... but retain FSX_ADS for BBS ads and perhaps add in the idea that ANSI art posts could go into the FSX_ADS echo also.. :)

2cents provided

thanks!

Kerr Avon [Blake's 7] 'I'm not expendable, I'm not stupid and I'm not going' avon[at]bbs.nz | bbs.nz | fsxnet.nz

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Linux/64)
* Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)

Re: Re: Pondering Echomail Changes
By: Avon to neoshock on Fri Feb 07 2025 08:25 am

Howdy,

Deon - could you keep you nightly stats posts coming to me as you do but also look to shift to a weekly post of NET 3 stats into FSX_BOT?

So stop the daily post (to you) and instead implement a weekly post in FSX_BOT?

We should both choose a day to post them to each week into FSX_BOT, perhaps our Sunday morning?

Yup, I think Sunday sounds good, any preferred time?


...����
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On 07 Feb 2025 at 04:22p, deon pondered and said...

Howdy,

Hey

Deon - could you keep you nightly stats posts coming to me as you do bu also look to shift to a weekly post of NET 3 stats into FSX_BOT?

So stop the daily post (to you) and instead implement a weekly post in FSX_BOT?

No keep the daily post sent to me please as I use that to upload to the website. But yes implement a weekly post in FSX_BOT thanks.

We should both choose a day to post them to each week into FSX_BOT, per our Sunday morning?

Yup, I think Sunday sounds good, any preferred time?

No not really, I think I'm trying to run my cron just before midnight Monday rolls around at the moment..

Kerr Avon [Blake's 7] 'I'm not expendable, I'm not stupid and I'm not going' avon[at]bbs.nz | bbs.nz | fsxnet.nz

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Linux/64)
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